HONG KONG
-- LEUNG KWOK HUNG and FRANCIS LAU, political activists in Hong Kong since
the mid-'70s, talked to Green Left Weekly's EVA CHENG about the current state of workers'
resistance and the struggle for democracy in China. Leung and Lau were leaders of
the Revolutionary Marxist League until its dissolution in the late 1980s. They have since
been active members of the April 5th Action, which engages in solidarity with the
democracy movement in China. Lau is also a coordinator of the web site Hong Kong Voice of
Democracy?
Question: What is the state of the Chinese democracy movement?
Lau: Many activists from 1989 consciously dissociated themselves from their
predecessors from the late '70s and early '80s. Calling themselves the
Tiananmen generation? they seem to be ignorant of or refuse to recognise the
heroic pro-democracy protests in Tiananmen in 1976.
Many activists from these various generations are now in exile, but those from
the 1989 generation are most vocal. The latter is very fragmented, splitting over many
petty arguments like who's the real Father of democracy of China?
They are politically disoriented and ideologically confused.
Many are barred from returning to China, but they often maintain links with the activists
in China. Ideologically, most of them are pro-West, having big illusions in capitalism. I
doubt if they'd promote workers' democracy if they returned to China.
There are some better elements who consider themselves Marxists, opening the possibility
of a revolutionary wing among the exiles, but their program of action is not all that
clear.
Social tension is high in China: rampant corruption continues, joblessness surges sky
high, and a big proportion of workers were sent home on starvation subsidies to wait for
the work call? As a result, there are initiatives to engage in independent
self-organisation, the most famous example of which is the formation of the Chinese
Democracy Party. It has branches in 20-30 cities, with more than 1000 members. The
Development Association of China [which operates mainly in China and held its first
national congress last October], registered in Hong Kong, claimed several thousand
members.
Some in the '70s and '80s generations had illusions in and were influenced by one faction
or another within the Communist Party of China (CCP). It doesn't seem to be the case with
the new generations, at least not openly.
Leung: Some overseas Marxists wrote off any collaboration with those mainland activists
who have illusions in capitalism. This conclusion is premature.
Many average workers are aspiring primarily to achieving an equality in consumption. But
many activists believe equal access to the means of production and getting rid of the
CCP's absolute control should be the key focuses; they are convinced capitalism will
deliver the goods.
All of them find privatisation tolerable so long as it doesn't block them from their
goals, not knowing that it certainly will. Many are blinded by these social democratic
fantasies, but their political outlook isn't yet set in concrete. More polarisation will
take place.
We have to admit that the political clarity of this generation is a far cry from their
'70s and '80s predecessors, who were predominantly aspiring to socialism. The Marxist
tradition within the democracy movement has largely been lost.
Many in the present generation are pro-bourgeois technically, but their demands are in
substance going against the government. The workers' demands are often thoroughly
anti-capitalist, although they aren't necessarily aware of that.
If you ask any worker in China, most of them will support capitalism as defined by the
official biased campaign. But if you ask whether they support the kind of capitalism that
takes their job away, they will certainly say no.
Many of them laboured for decades for their [state] enterprises and feel strongly that
they are entitled to protection of their basic welfare. Their action to defend such
entitlements objectively goes against Beijing's agenda.
In linking up with the struggle for democracy in China, it's most sensible to join forces
with them, seizing on their program for social reform and defence of workers, rather than
dwelling in an abstract sense on debating whether capitalism is good.
Beijing's privatisation program is at a critical stage. Many more firms will be chucked
out of the state sector, some by stages, and the workers will be out in the cold. It will
certainly lead to strong resistance.
Some worker activists, who tried in vain recently to set up a Chinese Workers' Party,
advocated the institution of effective people's control of production to halt
privatisation. So long as we are in the same fight against privatisation, we can work
together. Theoretical debate on capitalism can be pursued when the time is right.
In my discussions with the activists from China, some may have respect for my activism but
often wonder in regret why am I still a Marxist (considering all the Stalinist
distortions). Yet these people are very much at the forefront in the campaign against
privatisation, advocating workers' direct control of production. But they still support
Deng's pro-capitalist reform in its broadest sense.
This reflects great ideological confusions, which isn't surprising given the defeats and
discontinuities of the opposition political currents in China. Like ourselves, before we
were convinced about Marxism, most people start with the basic idea of equality and could
believe the fantasy that equality can be achieved under capitalism.
We need to harshly criticise the right-wing ideas in the democracy movement, but must look
for a point where we can intervene amongst all this ideological confusion. We've got to
have a transitional program on the basis of which we can find allies. You can't go far if
you insist on clarifying first and foremost with these activists one another's concept of
socialism.
Question: How extensive are the links between activists in Hong
Kong and China?
Leung: Individuals have links, but they aren't as extensive as they were in the late '70s
and early '80s, when many impoverished activists travelled to China to link up with them
under the goal of forging a united movement. This objective isn't here now.
More means of communication are available, through the internet in particular, which has
much reduced Hong Kong's role. The availability of a lot of easy money from the US,
estimated to be US$4 million last year, also changes the dynamics to a certain extent.
Many [Hong Kong] groups and individuals got a share of this money.
Some Chinese activists can be suspicious of activists from Hong Kong, but the door can be
more open, at least superficially, if you can provide them with logistical or financial
support -- a mobile phone and other means of communications with all ongoing fees taken
care of could be a good start. If you can't afford it, you may get stuck.
Question: What are the prospects for revolutionary changes in
China?
Leung: Though a thin layer is doing well from the pro-capitalist changes, a growing
impoverished majority is more prepared to fight. There is a crying need for a
revolutionary leadership, for greater clarity about the tasks and perspectives.
Literature on three basic areas of agitation is desperately needed: an expos?of how
corrupt the ruling bureaucracy is, including the incipient capitalist class, an analysis
of the concrete experience of struggle of the workers in China and the former Eastern
Europe, and a convincing argument for why workers need their own organs of
self-organisation.
There are bound to be many different currents in the coming revolutionary leadership in
China which will be tested and screened through their involvement in mass organising and
mobilisation. You can't sort out all the ideological differences now, in abstract.
Our main task now is to lay bare these social contradictions with sharp analysis of the
exploitation of the people by capitalism and the bureaucracy, outlining the relations of
production and so on. More concrete facts on the extent the country's assets have been
looted by the ruling classes could be very useful for agitation.
We have to patiently keep working to win the confidence of the masses. That hinges on our
activism, honesty and ability to get things done.
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